Tuesday, June 28, 2011

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  • suavesandeep
    06-23 10:49 PM
    Ask current underwater home owners how much pleasure are they deriving from their owned home. Day to day pleasure of living may come from the size and the quality/amenities of the house you stay in, whether you own it or rent it is immaterial. If you can rent the same house for 50% of your monthly mortgage and on top of it never have to worry about declining home prices why would you be more happy owning it? Plus "owned" house is a little bit of misnomer here. Unless you have paid it off 100% it's not really your own. Rental property is owned by landlords and your "owned" home is in reality owned by your bank. Miss couple of payments and net results are very similar.

    Don't get me wrong. In rational market owning home is the easiest way to build up wealth but I can't stress the "rational" part of it enough. Although in most areas the excesses of housing bubble are washed away by now in some areas (like good school districts in Bay Area) the prices are still not aligned with the fundamentals like rents for similar properties and average annual incomes. Also renting has one huge advantage right now in this era of rapidly rising unemployment. You are mobile. You can easily move wherever you can find your next job.

    In long run it is always better (IMHO) to own than to rent. But in the short term - for next 1-2 years - I see no compelling argument to buy home unless you land a steal somehow. Sentimental red herrings like "pride and joy" of ownership is definitely not a way to go about making the biggest financial decision of your life. The fact that realtors use this exact phase so often should give you a clue!
    I completely agree with you.. I seriously dont understand what pride/ownership people feel by making 5% or best case 20% downpayment, Where the bank owns most of the house. It only truly yours when you have fully paid for it. To cite comparisons to our parents is plain foolish. Most of our parents bought their first homes by outright paying for it and having the home in their own name and not any BANK. Dont get me wrong, Not that i am pro renting and against home buying. I hope to have a bank financed home like everybody else in the near future. But i seriously would not feel any pride of ownership without actually owning it in the real sense. I fully own both my cars and feel proud about them :).





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  • satishku_2000
    05-16 06:04 PM
    It is very simple -- the 'consulting on the bench' business is ILLEGAL. You can have any opinion on it you wan't, but the bottom line is it is against the law. If you can't meet the legal requirements, you shouldn't be here in the first place.

    And what do you think about the skilled and HONEST people in this world, finding a job and having an H-1B petition submitted on their behalf, only to see all the H-1Bs go in a single day due to the consultants? My sympathy goes to these people instead of any 'consultant'.

    It is amazing that people don't seem to grasp the concept of something being ILLEGAL, and instead seem to rely on some self-perceived logic as to what they can and can't do. Let us focus on the illegal clogging of the system and restore it to the otherwise great visa program it was meant to be.


    Title explains it all ... its not illegal to work parttime on H1b...If some employer does not pay on bench , employee can always goto DOL...





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  • SunnySurya
    08-05 04:08 PM
    You seem to be a rational person. You points are compelling and thats why we need to take some legal opinion on it.
    This does not apply. As long as BS+5 years progressive post-baccalaureate experience is ok for EB-2, the priority date recapture is as per law.

    ______________________________
    US Permanent Resident since 2002





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  • gimme_GC2006
    03-23 10:00 AM
    ok..People its been more than 6 months since some adventure in my case :D

    OK..today morning I got a call from a lady voice saying she is from Immigration services..

    The call ended by the time I realized my senses..here is the short story

    Immig: We are verifying your details and need from information to process
    Me: sure.

    Immig: WHo do you work for
    Me: Blah Blah employer

    Immig : Where do you work and who is your client
    Me: Blah Blah

    Immig: When did you first came to US. Where is Port of entry..
    Me: blah blah

    Immig: Do you have all of your IT contracts details.
    Me: COntracts? Since they are property of my employer..I dont have.

    Immig: We need to see your contracts with the clients..
    Me: hmm...I can try but I dont know if I can get them

    Immig: Well...It will help process your application..How fast we can process depends on how fast you can get those..
    Me: OK..I will try..

    Immig: Give me your email..I will drop in email with all info..you can reply back with copy of contracts
    Me: Ok..blah..blah email

    Immig: I need All phone numbers and all supervisors of all clients you worked with in US
    Me: I gave all of the details..told her that I cannot vouch for the validity of phone numbers or emails, as I dont know if they work for the same company

    Immig: Ok..done..I will send email..
    Me: thank you


    I this power play, I forgot to tell her that I already went through interview in aug08 and officer found everything correct. :confused:
    Nevertheles..does anyone know what this is all about?
    Why would they need this kind of information..I am not worried as such since I was never on bench or anything and have all LCAs all blah blah details.

    Just curious :confused::confused:



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  • Vsach
    08-08 08:09 PM
    Hi,

    In addition to what everyone else has recommended please contact Zoe Lofgren and seek help from Prakash the ombudsman and a personal meeting with Director Gonzales.

    All the best!

    VS





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  • eb2_hope
    08-26 10:01 PM
    Couldn't resist writing this one...for all of us with older priority date

    Jaane woh kaise log the jinke
    485 ko approval mila
    hamne to jab bhi call kiya
    humko RD/ND/PD ka jaal mila

    Still praying ..
    PD Dec 2004

    & then on a lighter note...mera number kab aayega

    Hamko bhi to lift kara de ..thodi si to lift kara de..
    kase kason ko diya hai..jaise taise ko diya hai
    Hamko bhi to lift kara de ..thodi si to lift kara de..



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  • VivekAhuja
    09-29 01:50 PM
    All democratic party candidates and supporters MUST BE rejected and voted out from all elections - Prez, state and local elections. These people are socialist uneducated fools. All they want to do it take your money and distribute it to the illegal aliens as WIC coupons, food coupons, free health, free schools, free tution and the list goes on. Let's elect the republicans!!
    I give a damn who the candidates are - remember, a president only signs a bill into law or vetos it, he has no other power.





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  • unitednations
    07-09 04:41 PM
    Ah!! I see.....I do have the same i94 number on both the I-94s


    desi is correct...



    Everytime you extend non immigrant status; you are extending the white I-94 card on your last entry.

    However; if you leave after the last extension and you re-enter then the white I-94 card you receive at the border overrides all previous white I-94 cards; extension of stays.

    This is where the problem occurs:

    H-1b for company A visa is valid until July 2009 and the h-1b approval for a is also valid until july 2009. You come into USA on white I-94 card and they gave validity until July 2009.

    Now; you file for change of employer and extend status until July 2010. The notice of action will have the same I-94 number as the date of your last entry.

    Now; you go outside USA; on your way back in the port of entry officer mistakenly gives you a white I-94 card only valid until your visa expires (july 2009). Now; if you overstay July 2009 then you would have been considered to be unlawfully present from July 2009.

    Bottom line: your last action generally overrules your stay.



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  • amitga
    01-28 10:33 AM
    There has never been a mention of the H1b visas approved and those that do not fall under the quota....

    This guy is just after his ratings nothing else...his book explicitly quotes that H1b and L1 visa holders do not pay any taxes and transfer all the money home. (CNN has a few hundreds of them on H1b)

    When there was a huge debate on illegal immigration he quoted he was all for legal immigration. The only way one can legally immigrate with skills is via H1b visa and he is against it.


    Can't Lou be sued for intentionally having false information in his book. At lease we should all add negative comments about his book on Amazon.com reviews. His book rating on Amazon is 4 and we should add 30-40 comments to bring the rating to at least 2-3 star.

    Lou's Book (http://www.amazon.com/War-Middle-Class-Government-Business/dp/0670037923/sr=8-1/qid=1170001461/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9355488-1919237?ie=UTF8&s=books)





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  • americandesi
    08-06 02:09 PM
    After making a trip of South India, Santa Singh, his wife and his son were returning to Punjab in Tamilnadu Express.

    Santa Singh was occupying the lower berth, his wife the middle berth and his son the top most berth in the train. When the train stopped at one of the stations on the way back the son requested Santa Singh to bring him a cup of Ice cream to which Santa readily agreed. When Santa and his son returned they found that a South Indian who couldn't understand Hindi had occupied his son's berth.

    Outraged, Santa Singh called the TT and asked him to help. TT requested that he could not understand Hindi/Punjabi so it would be better if Santa Singh explained the whole situation to him in English.

    Santa Singh explained, "That man sleeping on top of my wife is not giving birth to my child."



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  • cherupally
    07-17 01:27 PM
    Thanks a bunch for the replies UN..

    I have a quick Question in G-325A form about the previous addresses in last 5 yrs.. My credit history addresses do not match my paystub addresses.. So, which addresses do I need to put in this form.. Paystub addresses or Credit history addresses.. Will INS ask for proof of past addresses? I am confused.. Pls help..

    Thanks a lot...





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  • xyzgc
    12-25 04:30 PM
    We suffer due to the unfairness of a system that hinges upon the place of your birth! We demand that there be no quotas based on "country of birth" and that we ask for equitable treatment.
    Singling someone out due to his/her "national origin" should be something we backlogged EB2/3 I folks should understand more than others. And yet if someone from Pakistan gets a green card - we gang up on him and are outraged that someone from a terrorist country got it before us!!!! Does that mean we would be ok as long as he got it after us?


    I apologize for singling out Talash. I just got frustrated with the fact that you can come from a small, war-mongering terrorist country and get your gc in a year's time, gloat over it, while our tax money of several years finds its way intothe coffers of the very same nation and we wait patiently for several years to see the green.
    It was misdirected anger and I stand corrected for singling out some one like this but it doesn't make my point completely invalid either.

    I got plenty of red dots after my mere mention of the stupidity of ganging up on the fella... red dots are ok... it was the messages that came along with that were offensive - traitor , paki pork, etc - I just deleted my posts after that and stopped commenting on that particular thread.


    I never hurled insults at others and never intended to - you should see the offline messages people left me and you will be equally surprised educated people can use such a horrible language! I'm quite sure several others didn't do that as well. Most folks have been logical and consistent in their posts.
    I gave reds because I got reds - I didn't insult anyone at all. And I'm sure there are many others like me, who didn't participate in this dirty name calling but posted their views openly.


    There is nothing wrong with discussing the history of India and Pakistan, nothing woring in discussing organized vs. unorganized religion, nothing wrong with pointing out the the flaws in Islam or any other religion - The problem is that such discussions always end up with insults hurled at each other. While we may start with the noble intention of having a civil discussion about these issues - every thread like this ends up with offensive remarks that drives people away. The simple question then becomes - is it worth it? Is this the place to do it? Would such a thread be allowed to continue on Ron Gotcher's website? I hope the moderators of this site realize that inaction on their part seems like they condone this type of behavior.


    Why are you "singling" out this particular thread?

    Haven't you seen enough bickering, shouting, name calling on other threads, which are supposedly, solely focused on addressing immigration issues.
    How many threads have you seen not ending up in flaming at each others? Nearly, in every thread that is related to immigration, people jump at each others throats. Otherwise, there are threads which post useless visa bulletin predictions (I've done it myself).
    And what have you done to stop it, may I ask?:(


    All the red dots coming my way are more than welcome... just a small request about the insults .... please be brave enough to post them publicy!
    So let us now go back to solving all the controversial theological, anthropological and geopolitical issues. Let us continue to demand for fairness and an immigration system blind to our country of birth - but make sure we point out other people's national origin... no wonder the most anti-immigration people are generally the most recent immigrants.

    Agreed.



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  • pappu
    08-11 12:44 PM
    The USCIS's "Yearbook of Immigration Statistics" is a valuable source of info in any immigration debate!
    http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/yearbook/index.htm

    One can catch on lies a lot of anti-immigration jerks and even the USCIS themselves using their very own data! You can clearly see how the number of employment based Green cards changed, for example, how sharply it dropped in 2003 for some reason (not in 2002 which could be explained by 9/11!). They have no explanation for this. Apparently they were told to do so. The sabotage is obvious. There are more interesting facts there. Say, one can check if a particular country really has contributed too many immigrants in the last years to be excluded from the GC lottery or not, while another country is for some (political) reason still eligible despite it exceeded the limit.
    thanks for the link. I have forwarded this info to a statistician for analysis and if we can get some favorable arguments based on that data that can be presented as charts and graphs by IV.





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  • file485
    07-08 09:24 AM
    Please post URL of this file. Thanks!

    googled it and found the link..it might be helpful to many folks..

    http://www.ilw.com/seminars/august2002_citation2b.pdf



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  • sanju
    12-23 09:26 PM
    Granted there are loose canons in every community, yet some evils are encouraged by doctrine in religion such as below:

    http://living.oneindia.in/kamasutra/spheres-of-life/religious-prostitution-partii.html

    .. and simply you are down in mud pool doesnt mean whole world is like you!

    Why is it that I hear about such things only from Mulsims on internet forums. Let me guess, because some muslim wrote that articles and sent it to all his brothers, and now you are posting it to make it appear that only Islam ia the "religion of peace" and there are flaws with every other religion. Often you guys dig deep and if cannot find something from recent past, you go to dig into thousands of years of history and then come up with some link somewhere. That's the best you can do???? There are flaws with every religion because religions have been shaped through the centuries by people who were powerful, and as they say - power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So practices and traditions have been shaped by those in power. This applies to Islam, Christianity, Hinduism and every other religion. So all religions are corrupt. However, here is the fundamental difference - all religions other than Islam, have accepted the changes adopted by civilized society. Islam is the most stubborn and violent religion. You can pick up history book and find out bad/irrationale things/events about every religion, it just depends how long/far in time and space you are wiling to go. And depending upon what you want to prove, you will go far back in time to the times in history to suit your argument. So you take a position first and then go out to looking for proof to suit your position, instead of looking for proof and then taking a position. And why always talk of some events that occurred in the past to justify terrorist act, why always hide behind some other place (like Chechenya, Palestine, etc etc ) or some other event (like the article you quoted), and then justify terrorism in the name of islam. Till when are you going to play this game and befool yourself. Do you realize that your this behavior and the similar behavior of your religious leaders has resulted in forcing the modern society to relate islam to terrorism than relating islam to being a religion.

    How about this link:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28161210/

    This is in America, the land to which you are in line to immigrate and are waiting for green card. Does it mean you are dying to live with sex slaves because as per this news report sex slaves business is thriving in America? Is that one of the tenet of Islam - to be a sex slave?

    You guys distort facts to make other religions look bad because the name of this slimy game is - "I can only be good if I make others look bad". And even if I support & sympathize with terrorist, it is ok as long as I can justify it by posting some link that shows some other religion in bad light. Is that how it works????

    Look, there are dark events and dark times in the history of every society and every religion, spanning from multiple centuries to medieval age to modern progressive society. Talk about in today's context because we are all living in the PRESENT and no one know for sure about the accuracy of the "history" as everyone has their version of the history. In the present world, Islam and terrorism are synonymous. This is not what I am saying, this is being discussed and accepted by all progressive societies of the world. Civilized communities and societies world over do not look upon Islam favorably. You can try your trick faulting other religions as many times as you want, but it will do only so much, and Islam and terrorism will continue to be synonymous, unless you stop wasting your time to make others look bad, and live up to the responsibility to do some house cleaning to clean up the mess created by the so called "religion of peace". Its that simple.


    .





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  • hopefulgc
    07-13 01:04 PM
    Good argument.. this should make it to the letter

    Here is my 2 cents worth...

    We can come up with agreeable facts that should go in the letter that explains EB3 I plight. IV core can help with this and also proof read and approve final version of the doc. We should stress on date being stuck in 2001. And AC21 not giving a whole lot flexibility to change jobs even with EAD. Like a programmer with 7 years of experience would be eligible to become a PM (if the person has acquired right skills/knowledge/experience) but I am not sure if AC21 allows a person to do that.



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  • vamsi_poondla
    10-01 04:17 PM
    This is off-topic..but you need to think of small businesses that keep wages for < 10 employees etc in their accounts.

    Thats because the rich folks all of sudden who have more then 100k in their accounts felt unsecured and obviously the US government for the rich is helping the rich.

    Coming to the topic, how many think that Sen Obama (as Prez Obama) will help our cause in case there is a CIR or piece meal EB provisions.





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  • gimme_GC2006
    03-24 09:37 AM
    hehehe..

    Looks like this thread is taking a different turn..

    to set the records..I was never been on bench, always paid, and never out of status..

    Also, I have sent all the docs to them


    and I dont think they are looking into case suspecting something..mine was a random pick transferred to NBC.. last year.

    And My case was almost approved last Aug2008..during the interview..but visa numbers were exhausted already for the fiscal year (remember.DOS bulleting said visa #s are there but in reality they were long gone..they only gave statement so in the Mid sep2008)..

    so..I think since it was lying there laying eggs, a different officer started looking into it all over it again..apparently, I assume earlier officer didnt put any note on it





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  • Macaca
    05-13 05:35 PM
    Give Us Your Huddled Masses of Engineers
    Why are we educating the best and the brightest, only to turn them down for visas? (http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/forum89-news-articles-and-reports/1834574-afsheen-irani-the-girl-who-stumped-obama-172.html)
    By PETER H. SCHUCK AND JOHN TYLER | Wall Street Journal

    President Obama devoted almost all of Tuesday's speech in El Paso to the problems raised by illegal immigration: border and workplace enforcement, the need for a fair legalization process, and, almost apologetically, deportation. Only briefly did he mention our interest in attracting more high-skilled immigrants to work in the upper reaches of our economy.

    "Today, we provide students from around the world with visas to get engineering and computer science degrees at our top universities. But then our laws discourage them from using those skills to start a business or a new industry here in the United States," Mr. Obama said. This "makes no sense," he added. The president is right.

    The critical question is what to do about it. Finding an answer is urgent because the market for these workers is increasingly competitive�and the U.S. is no longer the only powerful magnet. Indeed, new studies from the American Enterprise Institute and the Kauffman Foundation find that we are losing ground in this competition.

    Our current policy is plain stupid. Of the more than one million permanent admissions to the U.S. in 2010, fewer than 15% were admitted specifically for their employment skills. And most of those spots weren't going to the high-skilled immigrants themselves, but to their dependents.

    The H-1B program that allows high-skilled immigrants to work here on renewable three-year visas, which can possibly lead to permanent status, is tiny. The current number of available visas is only one-third what it was in 2003. Plus, the program is hemmed in with foolish limitations: Visa-holders can't change jobs, and they must return home while awaiting permanent status.

    Thus, many employers find the H-1B program useless. Many high-skilled workers prefer to go to more welcoming countries, like Canada and Australia, or to stay home where their economies are now often growing faster than ours. The U.S. does have a program to attract job-creating investors, but it is more limited than some of our competitors' investor programs. In 2010, we granted fewer than 2,500 such visas, down from the 2009 total although higher than in earlier years.

    We're shooting ourselves in the foot. Research shows that high-skilled immigrants, particularly those in the so-called STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) fields, enrich American society in many ways. These workers are notably innovative at a time when the U.S. is in some danger of losing its competitive edge. Not only do they apply for patents at a disproportionate rate, but the government grants their applications two to three times as often as with comparably educated Americans. Even if we limit the comparison to scientists and engineers, high-skilled immigrants in those fields still receive 20% more patents than their American counterparts.

    In addition to being more innovative, high-skilled immigrants tend to be more entrepreneurial. They start and grow the kinds of new firms, such as Google, that account for the bulk of job creation. Research consistently shows that they start at least 25% of the STEM companies, which is double the percentage of all legal and illegal immigrants in the U.S. population.

    So what can be done? Even without increasing the total number of permanent visas, we can redress the imbalance between admission categories to increase the proportion of those that are highly skilled. Two existing allotments merit low priority and should be granted instead to high-skilled workers: the 50,000 "diversity" visas granted at random to applicants who need only have a high-school education, and the 65,000 visas given to siblings of U.S. citizens. A lottery for the low-skilled is an absurd way to select future Americans, and sibling relationships today are readily sustainable through tourist visas and Skype.

    A second reform would move to a point system for most would-be immigrants except for immediate family members, in which skills, entrepreneurship, English fluency, and other factors would count as well as close family ties. Third, we should grant permanent visas to any foreigner who receives a graduate degree from a qualified U.S. university. Finally, we should liberalize the H-1B program, perhaps moving from the current bureaucratic approach to an auction of the visas to employers who would bid for the skills they need, but also allowing for more job mobility for workers after a certain period.

    Attracting more of the world's best talent should be a no-brainer. It should not be held hostage to the much harder problem of illegal migration.

    Mr. Schuck, a professor at Yale Law School, is visiting at NYU Law School. Mr. Tyler is general counsel of the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation.


    You're getting a US visa! Oh, no, wait a minute (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110513/ap_on_re_us/us_us_visa_lottery) By MATTHEW LEE | Associated Press
    Abandoned on the Border (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/opinion/13Dever.html) By LARRY A. DEVER | New York Times
    Passport, visa, virginity? A mother's tale of immigration in the 1970s (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/may/13/virginity-tests-uk-immigrants-1970s) By Huma Qureshi | The Guardian
    Obama should get specific on immigration reform (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/obama-should-get-specific-on-immigration-reform/article2020261/) Globe and Mail Editorial





    Refugee_New
    01-07 03:22 PM
    hey dude. just a few posts back, you mentioned that cnn and fox are mouthpieces of a vast jewish conspriacy. and now you have no qualms in using CNN to justify another argument you are making. so i guess it's ok to switch sides in the middle of an argument? i'm not trying to demean you, but you sure have me confused now.

    CNN has to post it because UN brougth the truth out. I posted it here because you guys trust CNN and Fox.





    ujjwal_p
    01-06 09:33 PM
    Recently during Diwali celebration, one boy fired a rocket and it killed more than six people in Tamil Nadu. Offcourse this rocket was made in Sivakasi and it was an accident. It was a fire cracker. A simple fire cracker can make big accidents like this.

    But whole world is crying that Hamas fired 7000 rockets and killed innocent civilians and Isrealis are defending thier nation by killing thousands. What a crap man. You are condemning the killing of 4 Isrealis and not even bothered to feel about 600 innocent palestinians including school kids. What a hypocricy and what kind of human being you are?

    Hiding behind Civilian, hiding behind school kids, hiding in hospitals - Full of bullshit lies told by jewish owned medias like CNN and Fox. Have you ever heard from any moderate palestinians about thier plight? This is what those media feed us.

    Infact Isreal blocked medias including CNN from entering Gaza. Why? They don't want the world to watch their attrocities. Simple.

    I neither support Hamas nor justify their action. My point is, one nation is freely killing civilians and school kids, bombard schools, infrastructer, bomb goverment and civilian buildings, destroy roads and bridges, hospitals and destroying everything including their livelyhood and this world is watching silently. So called leaders of peaceful nations are encouraging this massacre. This is what troubles me.

    Its so pathetic and funny to see the world asking Hamas to stop firing and at the same time encouraging other side to kill more and more.

    Listen dude, I actually feel your frustration. A month and half back, I was going through the same feelings watching the Mumbai attacks unfold.

    Let's get to your arguments. First the Diwali incident. This is a lame comparison. That's an accident and you are comparing that against Hamas shooting rockets to kill and maime people. Accidents by children will happen in India in Diwali, in Karachi by another kid and also probably kids playing with guns and rockets in Gaza. So I'll ignore this one.

    Next, You believe we all are biased because of CNN and Fox and they are mouthpieces of a vast Jewish conspiracy. Ok, let's grant you that. How can you convince me that *you* are not being fed Arab and Muslim propaganda? I am not saying that they do, but the basic deal is : there is truth and there are versions. Maybe none of us know the truth, so don't go around blaming only one segment of the media because it's convenient to you. I actually go and read news from the media all over the world, be it Al Jazeera, Jerusalem Post, Strait Times. I consider myself reasonably informed and have seen some bias everywhere.

    Second, I absolutely condone the loss of innocent lives. Please don't insult me by paraphrasing what I said. I know and love people from all over the world, including Israel, Egypt, Pakistan and don't need to hear stuff like this. However you cannot prove that Israelis are purposely targetting civilians. Also I don't think the Israelis are stupid enough to do something knowing the amount of bad press that action will get. Maybe it was collateral damage or maybe it was a mistake. But yes Israel should be asked to clarify this.

    I hate that innocent lives are being lost. My stomach churns when I see photos of little kids being ferried to hospitals in Gaza. It's a most terrible situation. But we have an extremely irresponsible government in Gaza. It's a bit like the Taliban governing Afghanistan. Look at the West Bank. Fatah/PA runs it and while there are still problems, atleast there is a certain calm there. Yes the issue of settlements is ongoing but it's a thousands time better problem to have than daily skirmishes or even worse like what's happening in Gaza. People can go about living their lives, doing business, going to school, things normal people should be expected to do etc.

    This is the world's biggest flashpoint and people like Hamas and Hezbollah or atleast elements in them ( i know hezbollah has a strong social and civic organization too) don't really help the situation.



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